User avatar
icycalm
Site Admin
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun May 26, 2019 5:54 am

I never understood why discussion of this is banned at RVF. Especially when we're giving advice to incels, the number 1 thing to do is go to a prostitute to lose their virginity asap, because no girl wants to get fucked by a virgin. And in fact, I tell incels to go to MANY prostitutes, not just one, and MANY times, until they've racked up enough notches and bangs to stop feeling as if intimacy and sex are something especially strange and difficult. And only then do I advise them to start approaching normal girls.

It's another thing entirely if you are a boy or teenager. In that case, it's not so repulsive to girls if you're a virgin, and so I tell those guys to try to get with a normal girl first, because the experience of losing your virginity at that age can be--pardon my homo--quite a beautiful thing that should not be squandered on a whore, if possible.

But for the hordes of incels who've reached middle age without coming anywhere near a naked vagina, P4P is the ONLY way to kickstart a sexual life before they get too old to get it up at all.

In conclusion, P4P is a fine subject for discussion, and we will be able to discuss it at length here in as many threads as it is relevant.

But feel free to argue against this decision in this thread, if you want.

I would also be interested in exploring the precise psychological reasons why Roosh is against it. I think it's because a big part of why he took up game was to feel "like a man" via the accumulation of bangs and notches, so he felt his "accomplishments" would be threatened by guys who got them the "easy" way, by throwing money around, so he banned them from his presence to avoid feeling as if their experiences diminished his sense of manhood.

That's my theory, at any rate.

PillBoxer
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 4:05 am

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun May 26, 2019 6:26 am

I've always been against it because of the stigma associated with it. I'd consider it a stain on my soul if I had to P4P. It's just not hard to get action without paying for if if that's all that you want.

But I'm with you. If you're so inept, repulsive, awkward or whatever to break that seal, P4P might work for you. Hopefully, it leads to better things.

That being said, it's not like P4P is going away or requires much more discussion than be safe about it. For the rest, learn some game and get laid.

User avatar
icycalm
Site Admin
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun May 26, 2019 9:37 am

PillBoxer wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:26 am
It's just not hard to get action without paying for if if that's all that you want.
First of all, for many people today, it is hard. We call them incels. And it's apparently a growing demographic.

Second of all, I personally do not merely want "action". I've been having action since 1995. What I want today is the cream of the crop. I want to fulfill all my wildest sexual fantasies. And that is not easy, and certainly not without great investment in time and effort, and certainly not on a regular basis at the drop of a hat, as I would ideally like to have it. If I can get 7s and 8s with some effort, I certainly can't easily get 9s and 10s, and if a 10 came up to me and said "You can have me all day long for a few hundred", I wouldn't mind at all, and certainly wouldn't feel any shame about it. I'd feel lucky and privileged. I spend dozens of hours daygaming per month to get the 7s and the 8s, and maybe a couple times a year a 9 and a 10. And that's without counting all the texting and dating and drama and bullshit I have to put up with. Sometimes, with a cool girl, it's all smooth sailing and very enjoyable, but I can count on the fingers of one hand the 9s and 10s I've had in my life that have been cool and wonderful. I certainly don't have one of them right now, and who knows how many months of approaches and bad proto-relationships I'll have to go through to find the next one.

So I understand that some people have issues with P4P, and that's okay, but other people have no issues at all, and that should be okay too between men, especially given that we're talking about mankind's proverbial oldest profession here. It isn't going away anytime soon, and we really should have gotten over this issue by now.

So it's cool to dislike it, just as I dislike Christianity and Christians, but we should still all be able to co-exist in a single forum. When I see a Christian preaching on RVF, it annoys me quite a bit, but then I skip over it, and click somewhere else, and the same should be done about P4P in this forum by whoever has an issue with it. And I'll make sure that the P4P advocates do not plaster their P4P opinions in every single thread, just as I will make sure that the religious nutjobs don't plaster their sermons in every single thread.

And everything will work out well in the end for everyone, and we'll all be a big happy family.

Having said all that, there IS a place where people can argue about the very CONCEPT of P4P, and its pros and cons, and that's this very thread right here. As long as we do our best to maintain civility towards each other, we should be free to argue back and forth on this issue in here for ever.

HardKnocks
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 12:53 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun May 26, 2019 2:01 pm

P4P seems to be one thing that people in/from the west tend to take extreme positions on and not examine from a more nuanced, real-world data basis.

A few postulates first:

One, as described above, you always pay one way or the other. Now I would agree that the fitness/style/game/bankroll/logistics/groundwork required to pay for "free" girls is worth developing for its own reasons and can lead to a lower marginal cost in the long run, but it must be acknowledged there are opportunity costs as well as limitations out of one's control for this too.

Two, in a sense all work is prostitution in that you likely wouldn't be doing it (or at least to the same intensity/proportion of your time) if you weren't getting paid. How is it any different from paying someone to cook your food, or fix your car, or do your taxes or give you a massage? Most of those could be done yourself if you put in the time and effort instead of money. Arguably many better paying jobs are just higher end prostitution.

Three, relatively high availability and low cost of P4P is a civilizing influence that reduces the actual rate of rape/sexual harassment of women and crime rate overall. It also increases the overall quality of women as low quality fat/bitchy/unfeminine women have a much more difficult time finding boyfriends/husbands and have to bring more to the table than the occasional prospect of pussy when the stars align. With this in mind, shaming/prohibiting P4P is essentially buying into the feminist frame.

Getting back to the core topic, it is NOT a one or the other choice between P4P and gaming regular girls. It can be if one wants/is forced to, but certainly doesn't need to be. Sometimes life priorities don't permit the aforementioned combination of fitness/style/game/bankroll/logistics/groundwork required to not directly pay at a given time when an exhausted sincere guy simply needs some sensual human pleasure.

As well I've found guys who are open to both options tend to put up with far less bullshit from women in the first place, which is stronger frame/inner game in itself and better for society.

PillBoxer
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 4:05 am

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Mon May 27, 2019 2:03 pm

I can be civil about it. I'm a married man and I'm not interested in P4P. I can see the appeal of it but I don't want to be part of it. But I won't stop anyone else.

Cobra
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 2:45 am

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Tue May 28, 2019 1:06 am

Gentlemen, be careful about the P4P discussion. You will attract dregs of society to the site and will have a difficult time moderating them. Given the extreme dichotomy between P4P and game, again, like the political discussion, you will have a hard time reconciling the differences between the 2. For example, a site with game denialists (who advocate extreme P4P) cannot be easily separated from those that partake in it occasionally, to someone that is a total virgin. You will end up confusing these individuals in the moderation process. Just giving you a heads up.

User avatar
icycalm
Site Admin
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Tue May 28, 2019 1:40 am

I've only done P4P once in my life, at 17. Lost my virginity to a Ukrainian prostitute with massive tits in Athens, Greece (my home city).

I am 41 now, and unless I settle down to make a family soon, I will probably end up getting heavy into P4P in my 50s and beyond, in order to keep banging young girls. So I am very interested in learning the intricacies of getting the best value for my money out of this, etc. In fact, if anyone knows how to reach my countryman Greek Kamaki, please let me know. It would be great to learn from such legends as him.

User avatar
The Father
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 2:58 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Tue May 28, 2019 4:05 am

Let me approach this from a different perspective: Regardless of whether one has any interest in paying for sex, I certainly do not think it should be illegal. Physical comfort is a human need - like food, shelter, health care. Those aren't illegal. And in many, many western countries in Europe and elsewhere, paying for sex is not illegal. Indeed, it takes the seedy element out of it, the girls get regular checkups and aren't exploited by pimps. Like legal marijuana, legal and regulated sex work is long, long overdue. And it will happen in my lifetime.

That said, i don't plan to use it. At my age, my sex drive isn't what it once was. There are other things i'd rather spend that money on. And besides, there's REALLY good quality porn for free!
"Banh mi" is a great sandwich. "Ban everyone who disagrees with me" is the mark of a power-hungry moderator.

User avatar
shemp
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Fri May 31, 2019 9:41 pm

Cobra wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:06 am
Gentlemen, be careful about the P4P discussion. You will attract dregs of society to the site and will have a difficult time moderating them...
Don't clutch your pearl necklace too tightly there...

There's nothing wrong wth banning detailed discussion of P4P, since that what International Sex Guide, Erotic Review and similar sites are for. But the topic itself MUST be a part of any game forum.

In order to use P4P effectively, you need to be a true alpha or omega, in the Game sense of a man who has no need for validation by women. Betas crave validation by women sex partners as adult males, just as they craved approval by their mother as boys. That is, the woman has to approve the beta for him to feel comfortable in his own skin (validated sexually) and the only way to be sure of such approval is if the sex is free. Woman most love man for himself, in other words. Alphas/omegas have no need for such validation, they just want access to the woman's body and to hell with what she thinks of the man.

While men who crave validation by women cannot enjoy P4P, nothing says men who do NOT crave validation (alphas and omegas) should use P4P. It's just a convenient option for these latter men.

I'm using alpha, beta, omega in the way most of the PUA/Game community uses these terms, but I don't really like these terms. I'd prefer to say most men crave female validation, whereas a small minority at top and bottom of social status hierarchy don't care about such validation.

I engage in soft P4P myself. That is, I have a girl in Ukraine that I see twice a week for 4 hours per meeting, for 3 months each summer, and I've been seeing her for 3 summers now. She's young and pretty, very reliable, always well-mannered and respectful. Not a passionate relationship and we have little to talk about, but she meets my needs at a price I can easily afford. The other 9 months of the year I'm celibate because I'm doing outdoors stuff. I have zero patience at this point for seducing civilian women.

Note that you still have to use "game" even with paid girlfriends to get good service. No oneitis. No neediness. No throwing tantrums or other immature behavior. No drama or other female behavior. Be good in bed: yes, you're paying her, but she can always refuse your business if she doesn't enjoy the sex. And just like with regular girlfriends, you usually have to test drive a whole bunch of girls to find one keeper.

I met with some other mongers today for drinks. One runs a specialized oil services business and travels constantly, the other two are married computer consultants in sexless marriages who don't want to divorce because of children, I'm a retired computer programmer myself. All of us are financially successful. Hardly dregs of society.

User avatar
icycalm
Site Admin
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Fri May 31, 2019 9:56 pm

shemp wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:41 pm
In order to use P4P effectively, you need to be a true alpha or omega, in the Game sense of a man who has no need for validation by women. Betas crave validation by women sex partners as adult males, just as they craved approval by their mother as boys. That is, the woman has to approve the beta for him to feel comfortable in his own skin (validated sexually) and the only way to be sure of such approval is if the sex is free. Woman must love man for himself, in other words. Alphas/omegas have no need for such validation, they just want access to the woman's body and to hell with what she thinks of the man.
Fantastic analysis. Explains perfectly the hysteria against P4P found in sites such as RVF and Swoop that are run by lame (=beta) guys.

User avatar
icycalm
Site Admin
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:17 am

Avoid all Women Except for Prostitutes
https://womenarestupid.site/blog/avoid- ... rostitutes
Mr. Smith wrote:Prostitutes are awesome

What’s the best way to avoid women’s bullshit? We all know that modern women are nothing but a huge pain in the ass to deal with, whether you are dating them, working with them, or whatever else. The only thing we require from women is sex. How do we get sex from women without jumping through all the bullshit hoops and games modern women want us to play in order to fuck them? PUA is not the answer. The real solution is to avoid all women except for prostitutes. Prostitutes are the most honest women that exist.

WomenAreStupidSite
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:39 pm

la noblesse wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:17 am
Avoid all Women Except for Prostitutes
https://womenarestupid.site/blog/avoid- ... rostitutes
Mr. Smith wrote:Prostitutes are awesome

What’s the best way to avoid women’s bullshit? We all know that modern women are nothing but a huge pain in the ass to deal with, whether you are dating them, working with them, or whatever else. The only thing we require from women is sex. How do we get sex from women without jumping through all the bullshit hoops and games modern women want us to play in order to fuck them? PUA is not the answer. The real solution is to avoid all women except for prostitutes. Prostitutes are the most honest women that exist.
sup la noble. WomenAreStupid dot site author here. Thanks for linking to the site in a couple of the threads here. Anyway my take on prostitution:

Modern women are a waste of time. You have to jump through hoops, play games, and also waste a lot of time AND money to get a "normal" women to have sex. Imagine if you could fuck a much hotter woman for the same amount of money, and without wasting time or playing mind games? That is the beauty of prostitution. Also, the pros in 3rd world countries are the best. They are basically normal women, unlike the drug addicted crackhead pros in America.

A prostitute in America can cost you literally 2000 dollars for a night.
A trip to Tijuana costs 200 dollars.
A hotel room in Tijuana costs like 50 dollars a night.
A 9/10 hot mexican prostitute costs like 100 dollars an hour.
You can fuck like 10 HOT mexican girls for the same price as one shitty american prostitute.

Anyway let's keep in touch, I think we got a similar mindset. Hell, I would like to drive some traffic to your maleprivilege forum, so if you don't mind, I'd like to link it in the next article.
women are dumb. Throw rocks at them https://womenarestupid.site/

User avatar
icycalm
Site Admin
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:48 pm

WomenAreStupidSite wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:39 pm
Anyway let's keep in touch, I think we got a similar mindset. Hell, I would like to drive some traffic to your maleprivilege forum, so if you don't mind, I'd like to link it in the next article.
Sure, I like your site and will be linking it more as I read more, I am sure.

Just to be clear though, I can personally get 8+ teenagers in the West (Europe) without too much effort, and as long as I can keep doing that (I am 41 right now, so I think I have 5-10 years left at the most) I personally won't be using pros. No pro can give you the feels that a 17yo falling in love with you can give you--or even the sex, for that matter. Fucking a sexually inexperienced teenager is a whole other level of Nirvana.

My current plan is to get a hot teenager knocked up and raising children all through her 20s, but if that fails, and I end up losing my looks at 50, then yeah, Imma start heading east, and eventually quite possibly using pros.

WomenAreStupidSite
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:10 pm

la noblesse wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:48 pm
WomenAreStupidSite wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:39 pm
Anyway let's keep in touch, I think we got a similar mindset. Hell, I would like to drive some traffic to your maleprivilege forum, so if you don't mind, I'd like to link it in the next article.
Sure, I like your site and will be linking it more as I read more, I am sure.

Just to be clear though, I can personally get 8+ teenagers in the West (Europe) without too much effort, and as long as I can keep doing that (I am 41 right now, so I think I have 5-10 years left at the most) I personally won't be using pros. No pro can give you the feels that a 17yo falling in love with you can give you--or even the sex, for that matter. Fucking a sexually inexperienced teenager is a whole other level of Nirvana.

My current plan is to get a hot teenager knocked up and raising children all through her 20s, but if that fails, and I end up losing my looks at 50, then yeah, Imma start heading east, and eventually quite possibly using pros.
yea true, it's a big rush, a big high, to get a 20 year old chick to fall in love. Anyway in America the age of consent is 18. If you try to seduce a woman under 18, you will be in a world of shit. Anyway tomorow I will link to this forum on the site. Our new focus and main focus is to tell men to never get legally married in America since the divorce system is so anti-male. I heard it's better in Europe tho.
women are dumb. Throw rocks at them https://womenarestupid.site/

WomenAreStupidSite
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:51 am

okay i just linked it in today's article

https://womenarestupid.site/blog/malepr ... -new-forum
women are dumb. Throw rocks at them https://womenarestupid.site/

User avatar
icycalm
Site Admin
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:29 am

Thanks, I appreciate the support.

WomenAreStupidSite
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:28 am

Adding my 2 cents to this thread. I successfully used PUA/game shit to seduce a few chicks.

Then I went to a prostitute, and I felt the most liberating feeling of my life. I realized that I could simply PAY MONEY for sex and avoid the whole female bullshit games. Cause with PUA, you still got to put up with rejection, bitchy females, female games, etc.

Once I mentally rejected PUA and embraced prostitution instead, I felt so mentally light. It was as if a 500 pound brick had been lifted off my skull.

Like, I no longer had to really give a shit what women think or try to develop the personality of an "alpha playboy". No, I could be whoever the fuck I want to be, I was free from trying to get female approval, and I became super aloof and detached, and secure in the fact that I could get sex whenever I want, for money.

The really fucked up thing is, the "normal" chicks I banged were all shitty in bed. Whereas prostitutes were quite good in bed, especially with blowjobs, and also they were far hotter than the normal girls i had been getting.

On a further interesting note, I met a couple of shemale prostitutes who were super fucking hot, like 10 times hotter than any normal "real" woman I had met. They gave the best BJ and HJ by far. Also, I do declare that traps are NOT gay. They look like women. I am a man, and attracted to the female form. How could that be considered "gay"?
women are dumb. Throw rocks at them https://womenarestupid.site/

WomenAreStupidSite
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:56 pm

Holy christ in heaven, on the topic of prostitution, I just stumbled upon the TSescorts site. Yeah, I think I'm done with women. Take a look yourself, the average trap is 10 times hotter than the average female.
women are dumb. Throw rocks at them https://womenarestupid.site/

doctormario
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:55 am

Re: Mongering/P4P discussion

Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:01 am

I think you're missing the obvious reason Roosh was against prostitutes. MONEY

Roosh is a PUA who sells advice to men who struggle to get sex. If he were to tell them "get a hooker", then they would give their money to hookers, not Roosh. By shaming prostitution, he keeps his customer on a leash.

Return to “Game”